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Time to be just 'The Dragons'
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| ALL IN THE NAME: Time to rebrand regional side |
THE time has come to drop the words Newport and Gwent from the title of the professional rugby team representing this part of Wales.
It was fair enough during the initial difficult settling in period of regional rugby and I was all for retaining that particular title.
But now that the regions have become well established and, indeed, provided the foundation for Wales' Grand Slam it's time to move on.
I gather the Scarlets are considering dropping the name Llanelli from their title to coincide with the opening of their new ground.
The Ospreys are already well established and are making rapid strides on and off the pitch towards achieving their ultimate aim of being a major power in European rugby.
They are full of world stars on the pitch, their players dominate the Welsh team and they have appointed a major figure in Andrew Hore to run their overall operation.
Cardiff Blues are also moving into a new stadium sharing with their football cousins, so they ought to consider using the name Blues as their title.
As I say, I was initially all in favour of retaining the words Newport and Gwent to reflect some form of identity in the wider rugby world.
But by now everyone in the game knows the Welsh regions.
And in the interests of unity in south-east Wales adopting the name of Dragons is the best course of action now. Those in charge ought to make far more of an effort to embrace the region, though progress was made with a Dragons training session in Newbridge's open day yesterday.
Aother important step the current intransigent board ought to make is to invite established and well respected Gwent figures on to it to more fully reflect the region the Dragons represent.
There will always be the fanatics like those who want to retain the name of Newport in the title at all costs and also those who won't go to Rodney Parade because it's against their beliefs.
But we have to cut a swathe through all that outdated thinking and move with the times.
Former Newport centre/wing Gareth Evans said only last week in another context that it was time to move on from the seventies and that you can't keep on about that golden decade.
Well, it's a similar case with regional rugby and the names they go by. Let's be away with all the pettiness and let's begin to live in this century rugby-wise.
Judging by the comments we have received on the Argus website a number of people are coming around to the idea.
Maybe they are also mindful of all the teams Down Under in the Super 14 competition where they go by the names of Reds, Blue Bulls, Cheetahs, Highlanders, Western Force etc.
Good traditional old names like Transvaal, Taranaki and New South Wales are no more. So if it's good enough for them...
One thing which clearly isn't negotiable is the ground where the Dragons will play which has to be Rodney Parade especially with the £40m redevelopment into a 15,000 all-seater stadium going ahead and close to being granted planning permission.
The other grounds in Gwent aren't, with all due respect, capable of hosting top class professional rugby and if a lesser game like, say Connacht in the Magners League was granted to one of them they would probably take it as an insult anyway.
So even if Newport benefit as well from the redeveloped ground, which obviously they will do - they are hardly going to drift off and play at somewhere like Tredegar Park - then Rodney Parade will clearly be the headquarters of the Dragons for the future.
If some people in the Valley areas are not keen on that it's the price they will have to pay if they are to support professional rugby in Gwent.
So by the same token the Newport element, whether that be the supporters or the board, who are all Newport RFC men, should also compromise and drop the names from the title and just use the name Dragons.
Teams like Newport, Ebbw Vale and Cross Keys still exist anyway at a Premier Division level.
No-one is going to wipe Newport off the map.
It's a thorny subject I know, but even as a Newport person I firmly believe that we have go to move on now, live in the real rugby world and, in some cases, just bite the bullet.
I know I'm pretty pessimistic and critical about the Dragons, the way they are run, the lack of more top players in the side and many other things, but the people running it now won't be there forever.
Maybe one day things will change, new people will come in and not be turned away from the gates because of a fear of giving up influence and privileges, and things can finally change.
A first step towards future intent would be to change that name and adopting the simple name of Dragons going into a new era in a new stadium.
9:17am Tuesday 25th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: jackboy, pontypridd on 9:52am Tue 25 Mar 08
Good article and points made. However you say "The other grounds in Gwent aren't, with all due respect, capable of hosting top class professional rugby and if a lesser game like, say Connacht in the Magners League was granted to one of them they would probably take it as an insult anyway". No, No, No!! Have you asked these other clubs? The Dragons had a good day at Newbridge yesterday and I am sure they would love to host a Dragons game against Connaught or Glasgow. You mention Taranaki? Super 14 games are played at their ground, but they are smaller games, all the big Hurricane games are played at Wellington. Exactly the same as should happen here, if all of the region are to get involved. The slightly lower revenues at the smaller grounds will be made up by enlarged revenues at the main ground as new supporters come on board. This is something that should have been done from the start...The other alternative of course (for those who oppose getting the valley teams involved) is to carry on as we are.
Good article and points made. However you say "The other grounds in Gwent aren't, with all due respect, capable of hosting top class professional rugby and if a lesser game like, say Connacht in the Magners League was granted to one of them they would probably take it as an insult anyway". No, No, No!! Have you asked these other clubs? The Dragons had a good day at Newbridge yesterday and I am sure they would love to host a Dragons game against Connaught or Glasgow. You mention Taranaki? Super 14 games are played at their ground, but they are smaller games, all the big Hurricane games are played at Wellington. Exactly the same as should happen here, if all of the region are to get involved. The slightly lower revenues at the smaller grounds will be made up by enlarged revenues at the main ground as new supporters come on board. This is something that should have been done from the start...The other alternative of course (for those who oppose getting the valley teams involved) is to carry on as we are.
Posted by: richard, newport on 10:38am Tue 25 Mar 08
Totally agree with Jackboy , it's time to move forward and embrace the whole region as i'm sure all of the real supporters want , message to all the people who have felt alienated from their region it's a total minority of people who are one eye'd, the only chants you will hear at RP these days is Dragons not Newport.
Totally agree with Jackboy , it's time to move forward and embrace the whole region as i'm sure all of the real supporters want , message to all the people who have felt alienated from their region it's a total minority of people who are one eye'd, the only chants you will hear at RP these days is Dragons not Newport.
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 10:45am Tue 25 Mar 08
Drop "Gwent" by all means. But to keep "Dragons" is crass in the extreme. It is a cheesy cliché and has no reference to this part of the world at all.
Drop "Gwent" by all means. But to keep "Dragons" is crass in the extreme. It is a cheesy cliché and has no reference to this part of the world at all.
Posted by: Iain S, Monmouthshire on 11:02am Tue 25 Mar 08
This has got to be the only way forward for all "regions" now.
This has got to be the only way forward for all "regions" now.
Posted by: BOBWD, Blackwood on 11:03am Tue 25 Mar 08
A lot of the t-shirts etc that are available from the shop at the moment only carry DRAGONS under the badge. It seems like the people in charge are trying to phase it in slowly.
A lot of the t-shirts etc that are available from the shop at the moment only carry DRAGONS under the badge. It seems like the people in charge are trying to phase it in slowly.
Posted by: exilegareth, cramlington on 11:49am Tue 25 Mar 08
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with?
Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really.
As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with?
Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really.
As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.
Posted by: Paul Williams on 12:00pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Robin says:
Maybe they are also mindful of all the teams Down Under in the Super 14 competition where they go by the names of Reds, Blue Bulls, Cheetahs, Highlanders, Western Force etc.
That's the problem. I have no idea where the teams are from, not even which country they are from. It is a very bad idea.
The name Dragons is also pathetic. If they had come up with a decent name in the first place the idea may have had some, but not much, merit.
Rugby should be following soccer, not american football. The soccer clubs are all place related which is why they have such strong fan bases.
I believe the Ospreys to be a special case, but even then, the national media talk about Swansea, because that is where they are based.
Robin says:
Maybe they are also mindful of all the teams Down Under in the Super 14 competition where they go by the names of Reds, Blue Bulls, Cheetahs, Highlanders, Western Force etc.
That's the problem. I have no idea where the teams are from, not even which country they are from. It is a very bad idea.
The name Dragons is also pathetic. If they had come up with a decent name in the first place the idea may have had some, but not much, merit.
Rugby should be following soccer, not american football. The soccer clubs are all place related which is why they have such strong fan bases.
I believe the Ospreys to be a special case, but even then, the national media talk about Swansea, because that is where they are based.
Posted by: Gwent Dragon Fan, Torfaen on 12:08pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Excilegareth, I think that is what robin is saying. Every week there are posts on this website with many fans almost begging for a re-brand, dropping both 'newport and gwent' from the identity. It is clearly the only way forward to unity within the region, and will hopefully stop the bickering that occurs week in week out between newport fans and the rest of the region. As I have pledged previously we need to unite or die. Throughout the season I have seen ospreys fans with flags displaying "the only true region", and its true. They are a region that has united and grown from it. They have the biggest following in wales and it has got to have something to do with the way the franchise is promoted. More fans = more money = better players. We need to unite and a rebrand could be the start of something not necssarily big but definately something better.
Excilegareth, I think that is what robin is saying. Every week there are posts on this website with many fans almost begging for a re-brand, dropping both 'newport and gwent' from the identity. It is clearly the only way forward to unity within the region, and will hopefully stop the bickering that occurs week in week out between newport fans and the rest of the region. As I have pledged previously we need to unite or die. Throughout the season I have seen ospreys fans with flags displaying "the only true region", and its true. They are a region that has united and grown from it. They have the biggest following in wales and it has got to have something to do with the way the franchise is promoted. More fans = more money = better players. We need to unite and a rebrand could be the start of something not necssarily big but definately something better.
Posted by: ITK, Newport on 12:30pm Tue 25 Mar 08
What do you mean 'If Newport benefit as well?' It's our stadium in case you hadn't noticed!
If any one from outside of Newport is prepared to roll up there sleeves and put in the hard work (and cash) that running the region required them I'm sure they would be welcomed with open arms but all we have had so far are false promises and posturing.
The only people from outside of the Newport RFC environment involved with The Dragons at the moment are on the payroll. Strange that, isn't it?
What do you mean 'If Newport benefit as well?' It's our stadium in case you hadn't noticed!
If any one from outside of Newport is prepared to roll up there sleeves and put in the hard work (and cash) that running the region required them I'm sure they would be welcomed with open arms but all we have had so far are false promises and posturing.
The only people from outside of the Newport RFC environment involved with The Dragons at the moment are on the payroll. Strange that, isn't it?
Posted by: rugbymad, pontypool on 12:48pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Yes this debate has been raging for sometime ,there really is no valid reason why the side should not be known as the "gwent dragons "
Yes this debate has been raging for sometime ,there really is no valid reason why the side should not be known as the "gwent dragons "
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 1:03pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Except that the team is based in Newport. Dragons is a lame unrepresentative name and Gwent doesn't exist. Great argument.
Except that the team is based in Newport. Dragons is a lame unrepresentative name and Gwent doesn't exist. Great argument.
Posted by: exilegareth, cramlington on 1:19pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Gwent Dragon Fan[/bold] wrote:
Excilegareth, I think that is what robin is saying. Every week there are posts on this website with many fans almost begging for a re-brand, dropping both 'newport and gwent' from the identity. It is clearly the only way forward to unity within the region, and will hopefully stop the bickering that occurs week in week out between newport fans and the rest of the region. As I have pledged previously we need to unite or die. Throughout the season I have seen ospreys fans with flags displaying "the only true region", and its true. They are a region that has united and grown from it. They have the biggest following in wales and it has got to have something to do with the way the franchise is promoted. More fans = more money = better players. We need to unite and a rebrand could be the start of something not necssarily big but definately something better.[/quote] Sorry friend, but the identity isn't the problem. Lack of money is. Giving people with no money but a fading reputation places on the board to placate them and stop them whinging to the press or bad mouthing the Dragons in the bar of a valleys rugby club is no solution.
The OSpreys got off to a flying start because the WRU funded and oversaw the clearing of the debts of Neath and Swansea and ensured that the directors of the Ospreys had a free hand to ignore the clubs from which the region had sprung - hence the High Court case involving Mike Cuddy. The Dragons got nothing but hindrance from the WRU and the laughable intervention of the Chuckle Bros from Ebbw Vale.
Pretending it's all about identity when there's no new money on the table is just stupidity, and Robin Davey is happy to stir the pot again, so he can retain his slot as the most read and most reviled journalist in Welsh rugby.
Gwent Dragon Fan wrote:
Excilegareth, I think that is what robin is saying. Every week there are posts on this website with many fans almost begging for a re-brand, dropping both 'newport and gwent' from the identity. It is clearly the only way forward to unity within the region, and will hopefully stop the bickering that occurs week in week out between newport fans and the rest of the region. As I have pledged previously we need to unite or die. Throughout the season I have seen ospreys fans with flags displaying "the only true region", and its true. They are a region that has united and grown from it. They have the biggest following in wales and it has got to have something to do with the way the franchise is promoted. More fans = more money = better players. We need to unite and a rebrand could be the start of something not necssarily big but definately something better.
Sorry friend, but the identity isn't the problem. Lack of money is. Giving people with no money but a fading reputation places on the board to placate them and stop them whinging to the press or bad mouthing the Dragons in the bar of a valleys rugby club is no solution.
The OSpreys got off to a flying start because the WRU funded and oversaw the clearing of the debts of Neath and Swansea and ensured that the directors of the Ospreys had a free hand to ignore the clubs from which the region had sprung - hence the High Court case involving Mike Cuddy. The Dragons got nothing but hindrance from the WRU and the laughable intervention of the Chuckle Bros from Ebbw Vale.
Pretending it's all about identity when there's no new money on the table is just stupidity, and Robin Davey is happy to stir the pot again, so he can retain his slot as the most read and most reviled journalist in Welsh rugby.
Posted by: Roger Stone, Newport on 1:23pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Like Owain says, 'Dragons' is a daft name - it's used for Glamorgan cricket, Wrexham football and any number of other teams. At the time of regionalisation I fancied the name 'South Wales Borderers', although that would have clashed with Scottish Borders - no such excuse now.
IF (and it's a big if) Cardiff and Llanelli abandon their names, then I might agree that the regional team should not have a geographical element - but please, lets lose the sad 'Dragons' name as well.
Like Owain says, 'Dragons' is a daft name - it's used for Glamorgan cricket, Wrexham football and any number of other teams. At the time of regionalisation I fancied the name 'South Wales Borderers', although that would have clashed with Scottish Borders - no such excuse now.
IF (and it's a big if) Cardiff and Llanelli abandon their names, then I might agree that the regional team should not have a geographical element - but please, lets lose the sad 'Dragons' name as well.
Posted by: Mr_T on 1:33pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Oh look here we go again Robin Davey stirring things up once again, going over and over the same old "arguments" and "points". Davey once again has presented what he calls sport journalism in his light the blue touch paper and stand back 10 yards and watch people from the region have "a go" at each other on the basis of this stirring idiot who has the bottle to call himself chief rugby journalist!!! This is definitely not rugby journalism Davey and I urge everyone in the forums not to take the bait from this self opinionated foolish person!
Oh look here we go again Robin Davey stirring things up once again, going over and over the same old "arguments" and "points". Davey once again has presented what he calls sport journalism in his light the blue touch paper and stand back 10 yards and watch people from the region have "a go" at each other on the basis of this stirring idiot who has the bottle to call himself chief rugby journalist!!! This is definitely not rugby journalism Davey and I urge everyone in the forums not to take the bait from this self opinionated foolish person!
Posted by: Paul Williams on 1:56pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Robin says:
Maybe they are also mindful of all the teams Down Under in the Super 14 competition where they go by the names of Reds, Blue Bulls, Cheetahs, Highlanders, Western Force etc.
That's the problem. I have no idea where the teams are from, not even which country they are from. It is a very bad idea.
The name Dragons is also pathetic. If they had come up with a decent name in the first place the idea may have had some, but not much, merit.
Rugby should be following soccer, not american football. The soccer clubs are all place related which is why they have such strong fan bases.
I believe the Ospreys to be a special case, but even then, the national media talk about Swansea, because that is where they are based.
Robin says:
Maybe they are also mindful of all the teams Down Under in the Super 14 competition where they go by the names of Reds, Blue Bulls, Cheetahs, Highlanders, Western Force etc.
That's the problem. I have no idea where the teams are from, not even which country they are from. It is a very bad idea.
The name Dragons is also pathetic. If they had come up with a decent name in the first place the idea may have had some, but not much, merit.
Rugby should be following soccer, not american football. The soccer clubs are all place related which is why they have such strong fan bases.
I believe the Ospreys to be a special case, but even then, the national media talk about Swansea, because that is where they are based.
Posted by: Gwent Dragon Fan, Torfaen on 2:11pm Tue 25 Mar 08
As the south wales argus has published previously, forums are a place for people to comment on articles and not to a place for people to make cheap insults. This bickering is the cause of the dragons falling by the wayside. And yes, some may think 'dragons' is a daft name, but isn't it on our countrys flag and symbolic to wales??? At least there is some significance to it guys.
As the south wales argus has published previously, forums are a place for people to comment on articles and not to a place for people to make cheap insults. This bickering is the cause of the dragons falling by the wayside. And yes, some may think 'dragons' is a daft name, but isn't it on our countrys flag and symbolic to wales??? At least there is some significance to it guys.
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 2:15pm Tue 25 Mar 08
That's a ludicrous argument. It is not specific to the region is purports to represent! It is too generic, too cheesy and totally unnecessary.
That's a ludicrous argument. It is not specific to the region is purports to represent! It is too generic, too cheesy and totally unnecessary.
Posted by: luckdai, Newport on 2:30pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]especially with the £40m redevelopment into a 15,000 all-seater stadium going ahead and close to being granted planning permission.[/quote]
Unfortunately the application has yet to be submitted. The application will also require an environmental impact assessment as part of the submission which will mean that the council has 16 weeks to determine it. Close to having planning permission - i think not!
especially with the £40m redevelopment into a 15,000 all-seater stadium going ahead and close to being granted planning permission.
Unfortunately the application has yet to be submitted. The application will also require an environmental impact assessment as part of the submission which will mean that the council has 16 weeks to determine it. Close to having planning permission - i think not!
Posted by: luckdai, Newport on 2:31pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]especially with the £40m redevelopment into a 15,000 all-seater stadium going ahead and close to being granted planning permission.[/quote]
Unfortunately the application has yet to be submitted. The application will also require an environmental impact assessment as part of the submission which will mean that the council has 16 weeks to determine it. Close to having planning permission - i think not!
especially with the £40m redevelopment into a 15,000 all-seater stadium going ahead and close to being granted planning permission.
Unfortunately the application has yet to be submitted. The application will also require an environmental impact assessment as part of the submission which will mean that the council has 16 weeks to determine it. Close to having planning permission - i think not!
Posted by: Iain S, Monmouthshire on 2:44pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]exilegareth[/bold] wrote:
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with? Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really. As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.[/quote] Its not a "Club" its a region. The Clubs still play in the Welsh premiership.
Also what has sad little name calling got to do with the debate RE: Your reference to brothers from Ebbw Vale? Thats a quote from the playground!!
exilegareth wrote:
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with? Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really. As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.
Its not a "Club" its a region. The Clubs still play in the Welsh premiership.
Also what has sad little name calling got to do with the debate RE: Your reference to brothers from Ebbw Vale? Thats a quote from the playground!!
Posted by: rugbymad, pontypool on 4:19pm Tue 25 Mar 08
If you lose the dragons name as well you may as well call them the "black and ambers" and let Newport have it full stop.
If you lose the dragons name as well you may as well call them the "black and ambers" and let Newport have it full stop.
Posted by: Oddjob, Monmouthshire on 4:52pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]rugbymad[/bold] wrote:
Yes this debate has been raging for sometime ,there really is no valid reason why the side should not be known as the "gwent dragons " [/quote] No valid reason, I wonder. The Dragons only started selling season tickets at their inception when "Newport" was placed in the title. That indicates to me t6hat a lot of supporters are kidding themselves that they are watching Newport, which they quite obviously aren't of course.
Gwent Dragons will suit me just as long as Newport get the standalone status that they deserve.
rugbymad wrote:
Yes this debate has been raging for sometime ,there really is no valid reason why the side should not be known as the "gwent dragons "
No valid reason, I wonder. The Dragons only started selling season tickets at their inception when "Newport" was placed in the title. That indicates to me t6hat a lot of supporters are kidding themselves that they are watching Newport, which they quite obviously aren't of course.
Gwent Dragons will suit me just as long as Newport get the standalone status that they deserve.
Posted by: DB, N*****t on 5:06pm Tue 25 Mar 08
They can call it what they like, the damage has already been done!!
They can call it what they like, the damage has already been done!!
Posted by: exilegareth, cramlington on 5:14pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Iain S[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]exilegareth[/bold] wrote:
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with? Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really. As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.[/quote] Its not a "Club" its a region. The Clubs still play in the Welsh premiership.
Also what has sad little name calling got to do with the debate RE: Your reference to brothers from Ebbw Vale? Thats a quote from the playground!![/quote] A region? Pray tell me, how is this region constituted? Does it have a regional rugby board, reporting to the WRU, or a regional organisation? No. Why not? Because it doesn't exist, and never did. Regional rugby was a sop to the little clubs, and never intended to be anything other than window dressing to allow the WRU to proceed with the culling of the professional sides who weren't up to scratch, and their replacement with bowdlerized franchises.
Cling on to the pretence of regionalism all you like, but it doesn;t exist and never has.
As for 'playground' remarks, I can only apologise for not taking this debate as seriously as you seem to.
Iain S wrote:
exilegareth wrote:
So let's be clear about this. Robin thinks people who put no money into the club ('well respected Gwent figures') should be on the board of the Dragons. Why? What will they bring to the party besides shoulders broad enough for a whole bag of chips and another set of vested interests to be dealt with? Robin's longings for the good old days of rugby by committee are pathetic really. As for the name of the club it's quite simple. Let the fans decide. Not Robin and his collection of the not so great and the not so good, but the fans.
Its not a "Club" its a region. The Clubs still play in the Welsh premiership.
Also what has sad little name calling got to do with the debate RE: Your reference to brothers from Ebbw Vale? Thats a quote from the playground!!
A region? Pray tell me, how is this region constituted? Does it have a regional rugby board, reporting to the WRU, or a regional organisation? No. Why not? Because it doesn't exist, and never did. Regional rugby was a sop to the little clubs, and never intended to be anything other than window dressing to allow the WRU to proceed with the culling of the professional sides who weren't up to scratch, and their replacement with bowdlerized franchises.
Cling on to the pretence of regionalism all you like, but it doesn;t exist and never has.
As for 'playground' remarks, I can only apologise for not taking this debate as seriously as you seem to.
Posted by: ju72, Wrexham on 5:32pm Tue 25 Mar 08
What sticks in the craw for many is that pre-2003, we already had a team that had a regional following - Newport RFC. The gateway rugby and second half schemes covered Torfaen & Monmouthshire as well as Newport and season ticket holders came from all over Gwent, including Pontypool. Rebrand it Newport Giants and let Newport make a success or failure of it. After all, it is Newport RFC who own the ground, provide the board and facilities. However, if Cardiff and Llanelli abandon their club names, then fine call it the Giants.
What sticks in the craw for many is that pre-2003, we already had a team that had a regional following - Newport RFC. The gateway rugby and second half schemes covered Torfaen & Monmouthshire as well as Newport and season ticket holders came from all over Gwent, including Pontypool. Rebrand it Newport Giants and let Newport make a success or failure of it. After all, it is Newport RFC who own the ground, provide the board and facilities. However, if Cardiff and Llanelli abandon their club names, then fine call it the Giants.
Posted by: gwentman, newport on 6:49pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Owain Vaughan[/bold] wrote:
Except that the team is based in Newport. Dragons is a lame unrepresentative name and Gwent doesn't exist. Great argument.[/quote] Oh dear me. We have headlines in this Newport paper tonight with Gwent in the title. We have a Gwent Health Authority, a Gwent Education Authority, a Gwent Police Force, Gwent Alarm Systems, Gwent Alcohol Project, Gwent Aluminium, Gwent Association for the Blind, Gwent Buliding Supplies, Gwent Blinds, Gwent Careers Service, Gwent Carsounds, Gwent Record Office, Gwent Community Health Council, Gwent Crematorium, Gwent Counselling Centre, Gwent Cycles, Gwent Hydraulics, Gwent Mediation, Gwent Motor Factors, Gwent Picture Framing, Gwent Pressure Washers, Gwent Racing, Gwent Signs, Gwent TaxisGwent Theatre, Gwent Timber Products, Gwent VW Centre, Gwent Wildlife Trust and Gwent Wedding Services, to name just a few. Somebody had better tell these people they don't exist!
Owain Vaughan wrote:
Except that the team is based in Newport. Dragons is a lame unrepresentative name and Gwent doesn't exist. Great argument.
Oh dear me. We have headlines in this Newport paper tonight with Gwent in the title. We have a Gwent Health Authority, a Gwent Education Authority, a Gwent Police Force, Gwent Alarm Systems, Gwent Alcohol Project, Gwent Aluminium, Gwent Association for the Blind, Gwent Buliding Supplies, Gwent Blinds, Gwent Careers Service, Gwent Carsounds, Gwent Record Office, Gwent Community Health Council, Gwent Crematorium, Gwent Counselling Centre, Gwent Cycles, Gwent Hydraulics, Gwent Mediation, Gwent Motor Factors, Gwent Picture Framing, Gwent Pressure Washers, Gwent Racing, Gwent Signs, Gwent TaxisGwent Theatre, Gwent Timber Products, Gwent VW Centre, Gwent Wildlife Trust and Gwent Wedding Services, to name just a few. Somebody had better tell these people they don't exist!
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 7:40pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Hang on a minute? You are seriously telling me that the Argus obsessively use the word "Gwent"? Stop the presses!
As for those other private organisations - they can call themselves whatever the hell they like. They have obviously been hoodwinked into the great Gwent swindle just like you.
Hang on a minute? You are seriously telling me that the Argus obsessively use the word "Gwent"? Stop the presses!
As for those other private organisations - they can call themselves whatever the hell they like. They have obviously been hoodwinked into the great Gwent swindle just like you.
Posted by: tap, Cwmbran on 7:42pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]rugbymad[/bold] wrote:
If you lose the dragons name as well you may as well call them the "black and ambers" and let Newport have it full stop.[/quote] what a brilliant idea, someone talking sense at long last!
rugbymad wrote:
If you lose the dragons name as well you may as well call them the "black and ambers" and let Newport have it full stop.
what a brilliant idea, someone talking sense at long last!
Posted by: mrpatience, pontypool on 7:49pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I agree with Robin. It's not before time that Newport was removed from the Regional name along with Gwent as neither reflct the true nature of the region. The Dragons or even the Eastern Valley Dragons would be far more appropriate and command a far wider following.
I agree with Robin. It's not before time that Newport was removed from the Regional name along with Gwent as neither reflct the true nature of the region. The Dragons or even the Eastern Valley Dragons would be far more appropriate and command a far wider following.
Posted by: Corpardguy, USA on 7:54pm Tue 25 Mar 08
The purile argument about the name mayor may not have value, according to your mental age. What does matter is the quality of the rugby being played. Ospreys have a following far outside Swansea and Neath because of stars like Shane, Henson and Mike Phillips as well as being an attractive team to watch. Fans will watch a good game, I can remember a full ground when Newport played tha All Blacks and Springboks and they held the world record for a club game too (Newport vs Cardiff)at 40,000 for many years. All those people didn't only live in Newport. The support is there if the club can do well, win some siverware, and get some real "stars" to start the thing off. Tiechman and Percy brought the crowds in as did Dai Watkins and Kieth Jarrett (and many others) in years gone bye. Gwent/Monmouthshire/
East wales needs top flight rugby in actuallity not just in name! Get it right on the field and success WILL follow everywhere else.
The purile argument about the name mayor may not have value, according to your mental age. What does matter is the quality of the rugby being played. Ospreys have a following far outside Swansea and Neath because of stars like Shane, Henson and Mike Phillips as well as being an attractive team to watch. Fans will watch a good game, I can remember a full ground when Newport played tha All Blacks and Springboks and they held the world record for a club game too (Newport vs Cardiff)at 40,000 for many years. All those people didn't only live in Newport. The support is there if the club can do well, win some siverware, and get some real "stars" to start the thing off. Tiechman and Percy brought the crowds in as did Dai Watkins and Kieth Jarrett (and many others) in years gone bye. Gwent/Monmouthshire/
East wales needs top flight rugby in actuallity not just in name! Get it right on the field and success WILL follow everywhere else.
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 8:50pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Not if you call it "Eastern Valley Dragons" it won't. I'm not really sure if these arguments are for real, or just put up by the Argus to create incredulity.
Not if you call it "Eastern Valley Dragons" it won't. I'm not really sure if these arguments are for real, or just put up by the Argus to create incredulity.
Posted by: gwentman, newport on 8:53pm Tue 25 Mar 08
The 'Steelers' would unite all corners of the region, with steel having been produced in Ebbw Vale, Pontypool and Newport. At least it signifies something that unites. I ain't ever seen a Dragon.
The 'Steelers' would unite all corners of the region, with steel having been produced in Ebbw Vale, Pontypool and Newport. At least it signifies something that unites. I ain't ever seen a Dragon.
Posted by: gwentman, newport on 8:56pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Owain Vaughan[/bold] wrote:
Hang on a minute? You are seriously telling me that the Argus obsessively use the word "Gwent"? Stop the presses! As for those other private organisations - they can call themselves whatever the hell they like. They have obviously been hoodwinked into the great Gwent swindle just like you.[/quote] Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire,Islwyn
, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?
Owain Vaughan wrote:
Hang on a minute? You are seriously telling me that the Argus obsessively use the word "Gwent"? Stop the presses! As for those other private organisations - they can call themselves whatever the hell they like. They have obviously been hoodwinked into the great Gwent swindle just like you.
Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire,Islwyn
, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?
Posted by: gwentman, newport on 8:57pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Oops. Forgot Torfaen, that conveyor belt of Newport talent over the years.
Oops. Forgot Torfaen, that conveyor belt of Newport talent over the years.
Posted by: jonty, dewberried off on 9:55pm Tue 25 Mar 08
good god schoolyard
and children spring to mind
dont you lot realise we have the region base in newport it has the name it bears the colours of newport
if we cannot suport it now in numbers not 3500 but 10,000 do you realy think the support will come out of the woodwork if the name is changed like it or lump it the only chance of being in existence in 3 years time is to draw the support from as far as possible
what man is going to pour money in if the gates as low as they are even TB got cheesed of in the end where is he putting his money in now he did not walk away from rugby he walked away from the continual bickering
Be very careful we dont get what we crave and alianate the hole of gwent when there is not the following inside the city
for gods sake wake up and grow up
good god schoolyard
and children spring to mind
dont you lot realise we have the region base in newport it has the name it bears the colours of newport
if we cannot suport it now in numbers not 3500 but 10,000 do you realy think the support will come out of the woodwork if the name is changed like it or lump it the only chance of being in existence in 3 years time is to draw the support from as far as possible
what man is going to pour money in if the gates as low as they are even TB got cheesed of in the end where is he putting his money in now he did not walk away from rugby he walked away from the continual bickering
Be very careful we dont get what we crave and alianate the hole of gwent when there is not the following inside the city
for gods sake wake up and grow up
Posted by: monte_fisto, Newport on 11:48pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Ole, ole, ole ole...
DRAGONS, DRAGONS
Anything else is as simple-minded as Mr Davey. Cling to the past and die, ask the Warriors.
Ole, ole, ole ole...
DRAGONS, DRAGONS
Anything else is as simple-minded as Mr Davey. Cling to the past and die, ask the Warriors.
Posted by: Bela, Llandenny on 12:16am Wed 26 Mar 08
If any name should be droped it should be the infantile 'Dragons' brand. It is a cliche in Welsh sport and has no local significance to Newport or Gwent but to the whole of Wales. Just call it Newport-Gwent and drop the childish nickname. While you're at it get the WRU off the board so a potential investor can see that any investment would be subject to their business plan rather than the say so of the governing body, which is not on the board of any other region. Not really a coincidence that it is the only one of the four without a major investor is it? Mr Davey should also be mindful that it is Newport who are funding the ground development through the use of their own asset. No other club or part of the 'region' is contributing so the Newport name deserves its place.
If any name should be droped it should be the infantile 'Dragons' brand. It is a cliche in Welsh sport and has no local significance to Newport or Gwent but to the whole of Wales. Just call it Newport-Gwent and drop the childish nickname. While you're at it get the WRU off the board so a potential investor can see that any investment would be subject to their business plan rather than the say so of the governing body, which is not on the board of any other region. Not really a coincidence that it is the only one of the four without a major investor is it? Mr Davey should also be mindful that it is Newport who are funding the ground development through the use of their own asset. No other club or part of the 'region' is contributing so the Newport name deserves its place.
Posted by: Flyingwedge, Newbridge on 12:19am Wed 26 Mar 08
Ignore Owain Vaughan, the men is a pedant and brings no constructive argument to the debate.
If certain, small minded, people have their way 3500 will be the best gate they can expect, build Newport into a rugby power on that chaps! I for one will never turn up where I'm not welcome, the "one true region" gets my cash.
Ignore Owain Vaughan, the men is a pedant and brings no constructive argument to the debate.
If certain, small minded, people have their way 3500 will be the best gate they can expect, build Newport into a rugby power on that chaps! I for one will never turn up where I'm not welcome, the "one true region" gets my cash.
Posted by: Martin, Newport on 7:29am Wed 26 Mar 08
The only Rugby team in Wales entitled to the nickname 'Dragons' is the Welsh national team.
I'm one of those 'fanatics' who wants to retain 'Newport' in OUR club's name. I was going to suggest 'Newport Steelers', but this isn't much of a steel town anymore. So how about the 'Newport Fanatics'?
The only Rugby team in Wales entitled to the nickname 'Dragons' is the Welsh national team.
I'm one of those 'fanatics' who wants to retain 'Newport' in OUR club's name. I was going to suggest 'Newport Steelers', but this isn't much of a steel town anymore. So how about the 'Newport Fanatics'?
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 7:49am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire, Islwyn, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?[/quote]
You have made the fatal mistake of thinking that local government areas are supposed to be used in a broader geographical sense. They are not. Local government areas do not, and have never defined what county a place is in. The two systems have always been completely independent.
If pointing out the bleeding obvious makes me a pedant, then so be it.
Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire, Islwyn, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?
You have made the fatal mistake of thinking that local government areas are supposed to be used in a broader geographical sense. They are not. Local government areas do not, and have never defined what county a place is in. The two systems have always been completely independent.
If pointing out the bleeding obvious makes me a pedant, then so be it.
Posted by: monte_fisto, Newport on 9:03am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bela[/bold] wrote:
If any name should be droped it should be the infantile 'Dragons' brand. It is a cliche in Welsh sport and has no local significance to Newport or Gwent but to the whole of Wales. Just call it Newport-Gwent and drop the childish nickname. While you're at it get the WRU off the board so a potential investor can see that any investment would be subject to their business plan rather than the say so of the governing body, which is not on the board of any other region. Not really a coincidence that it is the only one of the four without a major investor is it? Mr Davey should also be mindful that it is Newport who are funding the ground development through the use of their own asset. No other club or part of the 'region' is contributing so the Newport name deserves its place.[/quote] Just call it Newport-Gwent! Where's a LMFAO smiley when you need one!
Where would the Ospreys be if they had called themselves Neath-Swansea!
The way to go is staring all you Newport clowns in the face, they are in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they just won us the flaming Grand Slam! Even a berk like Davey can see it makes sense...
Bela wrote:
If any name should be droped it should be the infantile 'Dragons' brand. It is a cliche in Welsh sport and has no local significance to Newport or Gwent but to the whole of Wales. Just call it Newport-Gwent and drop the childish nickname. While you're at it get the WRU off the board so a potential investor can see that any investment would be subject to their business plan rather than the say so of the governing body, which is not on the board of any other region. Not really a coincidence that it is the only one of the four without a major investor is it? Mr Davey should also be mindful that it is Newport who are funding the ground development through the use of their own asset. No other club or part of the 'region' is contributing so the Newport name deserves its place.
Just call it Newport-Gwent! Where's a LMFAO smiley when you need one!
Where would the Ospreys be if they had called themselves Neath-Swansea!
The way to go is staring all you Newport clowns in the face, they are in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they just won us the flaming Grand Slam! Even a berk like Davey can see it makes sense...
Posted by: silurian, gwent region on 9:04am Wed 26 Mar 08
i totally agree with Robin davey about removing the name newport and gwent from our regional name its well over due i also believe that the name dragons should be dropped i dont have a real problem with the name but it is well over used for example our national football rugby side is known as the dragons and also glamorgan cricket and wrexham football club is known as the dragons i have said it from day one that the gwent region should be known as the silures this is the name of the native tribe of south east wales at the time of thr roman ocupation this name is unique and historical to our region you could have a celtic knot as an emblem with the word silures beneath it, it is as simple as that,but who wants to listen to a bit of common sense?
i totally agree with Robin davey about removing the name newport and gwent from our regional name its well over due i also believe that the name dragons should be dropped i dont have a real problem with the name but it is well over used for example our national football rugby side is known as the dragons and also glamorgan cricket and wrexham football club is known as the dragons i have said it from day one that the gwent region should be known as the silures this is the name of the native tribe of south east wales at the time of thr roman ocupation this name is unique and historical to our region you could have a celtic knot as an emblem with the word silures beneath it, it is as simple as that,but who wants to listen to a bit of common sense?
Posted by: Owain Vaughan, Newport Monmouthshire on 9:52am Wed 26 Mar 08
Clearly [italic]nobody[/italic] wants to listen to common sense or we wouldn't be in this faux-regional mess in the first place. As for the "Ospreys" being in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they having won the flaming Grand Slam you really can't believe that was down to their name can you?
Clearly
nobody wants to listen to common sense or we wouldn't be in this faux-regional mess in the first place. As for the "Ospreys" being in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they having won the flaming Grand Slam you really can't believe that was down to their name can you?
Posted by: stevey, B.G. on 11:11am Wed 26 Mar 08
And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.
And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.
Posted by: man of newport, Newport on 11:13am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Owain Vaughan[/bold] wrote:
Clearly [italic]nobody[/italic] wants to listen to common sense or we wouldn't be in this faux-regional mess in the first place. As for the "Ospreys" being in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they having won the flaming Grand Slam you really can't believe that was down to their name can you?[/quote] The reason the O's are in this great position is because they have been run properly ([bold]as a region[/bold]), as opposed to us, who are where? Oh yes, that's right, in the dog dirt.
We’ve alienated the rest of Gwent and are now paying the price. Unless something drastic happens and we get some new blood and get support through the gate (our figures are truly [bold]pathetic[/bold] considering the area we are supposed to be covering), this region could be on its last legs. Whose fault will it be? Ours. The stone cold fact is that we need the rest of the region more than they need us. So should we reach out in an attempt to show some solidarity and build some bridges or just die on our collective backsides knowing that we made a mess of it?
I read on a forum today where someone said that it was ludicrous to expect rugby fans from around Gwent to come and support a team called Newport. I couldn’t find an argument as I know he was right.
I’m pretty sure that this will be my last season as a Dragons fan. I can take the failure on the pitch as the players can only do what they are capable of, but the ineptitude in the running of this region from day one has been dreadful and I don’t see it getting any better.
Owain Vaughan wrote:
Clearly nobody wants to listen to common sense or we wouldn't be in this faux-regional mess in the first place. As for the "Ospreys" being in the EDF semi, the HC quarters and they having won the flaming Grand Slam you really can't believe that was down to their name can you?
The reason the O's are in this great position is because they have been run properly (
as a region), as opposed to us, who are where? Oh yes, that's right, in the dog dirt.
We’ve alienated the rest of Gwent and are now paying the price. Unless something drastic happens and we get some new blood and get support through the gate (our figures are truly
pathetic considering the area we are supposed to be covering), this region could be on its last legs. Whose fault will it be? Ours. The stone cold fact is that we need the rest of the region more than they need us. So should we reach out in an attempt to show some solidarity and build some bridges or just die on our collective backsides knowing that we made a mess of it?
I read on a forum today where someone said that it was ludicrous to expect rugby fans from around Gwent to come and support a team called Newport. I couldn’t find an argument as I know he was right.
I’m pretty sure that this will be my last season as a Dragons fan. I can take the failure on the pitch as the players can only do what they are capable of, but the ineptitude in the running of this region from day one has been dreadful and I don’t see it getting any better.
Posted by: stevey, B.G. on 4:20pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Man of Newport you are one of very few wise people in your city, and unfortunately I presume not on the Dragons board. I fear it could be too late for regional rugby in Gwent. We at Ebbw have been desperate at times for an outside-half amongst other positions and I know fans would feel more of an affinity with the region had we borrowed Sweeney, or others at mutually convenient times, but this has not happened, but we have played against Dragon players when playing Newport( 4 at their last home fixture with us I think). And yes, play for Newport if you want to play for the Dragons is their policy.
Man of Newport you are one of very few wise people in your city, and unfortunately I presume not on the Dragons board. I fear it could be too late for regional rugby in Gwent. We at Ebbw have been desperate at times for an outside-half amongst other positions and I know fans would feel more of an affinity with the region had we borrowed Sweeney, or others at mutually convenient times, but this has not happened, but we have played against Dragon players when playing Newport( 4 at their last home fixture with us I think). And yes, play for Newport if you want to play for the Dragons is their policy.
Posted by: silurian, gwent region on 5:11pm Wed 26 Mar 08
owain vaughan poses a question does a name like ospreys benefit the regional side i believe it does they are not squabling over a name like us as in gwent the people of neath and swansea area have embraced the unique name the ospreys that means its getting bums on seats that means revenue coming in to pay for players that was the whole idea of regionalism because the w.r.u. could no longer fund 12 clubs so let us have a unique name like silures embrace it and move forward
owain vaughan poses a question does a name like ospreys benefit the regional side i believe it does they are not squabling over a name like us as in gwent the people of neath and swansea area have embraced the unique name the ospreys that means its getting bums on seats that means revenue coming in to pay for players that was the whole idea of regionalism because the w.r.u. could no longer fund 12 clubs so let us have a unique name like silures embrace it and move forward
Posted by: exilegareth, cramlington on 5:21pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Owain Vaughan[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire, Islwyn, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?[/quote]
You have made the fatal mistake of thinking that local government areas are supposed to be used in a broader geographical sense. They are not. Local government areas do not, and have never defined what county a place is in. The two systems have always been completely independent.
If pointing out the bleeding obvious makes me a pedant, then so be it.[/quote] We had some of this obsessive nonsense being peddled on the Newport website a few years ago. Spare us Owain- a county is only a local government area, nothing more.
Owain Vaughan wrote:
Hang on a minute. Your address says Newport, Monmouthshire. Which one is it? Newport, Monmouthshire, Islwyn, Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent make up the region of Gwent. You can't live in two places surely?
You have made the fatal mistake of thinking that local government areas are supposed to be used in a broader geographical sense. They are not. Local government areas do not, and have never defined what county a place is in. The two systems have always been completely independent.
If pointing out the bleeding obvious makes me a pedant, then so be it.
We had some of this obsessive nonsense being peddled on the Newport website a few years ago. Spare us Owain- a county is only a local government area, nothing more.
Posted by: exilegareth, cramlington on 5:28pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]stevey[/bold] wrote:
And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.[/quote] Stevey,
You can ask all you like, but in the brave new world instituted by David Moffett money talks and everything else is immaterial. Since the Chuckle Bros exited stage left, pursued by bears, no-one from north of Newport has either desired or tried to invest any money in the Dragons. In Moffett's brave new world, if you want to play you got to pay. Ebbw Vale and their peers haven't, and that's why we're where we are.
Even Robin Davey undertsands that money talks - he's trying to get the circulation of the Argus up by starting another pointless argument.
stevey wrote:
And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.
Stevey,
You can ask all you like, but in the brave new world instituted by David Moffett money talks and everything else is immaterial. Since the Chuckle Bros exited stage left, pursued by bears, no-one from north of Newport has either desired or tried to invest any money in the Dragons. In Moffett's brave new world, if you want to play you got to pay. Ebbw Vale and their peers haven't, and that's why we're where we are.
Even Robin Davey undertsands that money talks - he's trying to get the circulation of the Argus up by starting another pointless argument.
Posted by: Bela, Llandenny on 5:52pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The reason the Ospreys have success is down to the investment made by the millionaires on their board. If they were called Ospreys and had not made this investment they would be in the same position as the NGDs. They also had a brand new council funded stadium to move into pretty quickly. Hopefully with the redevelopment of Rodney Parade funded by Newport RFC will help the regional side. It would also be helpful if the WRU allowed the business to stand alone and attract investment in the way the others do. No businessman will invest while he cannot fully control his investment. That is a far more important issue than Davey's simplistic name debate which was done and dusted withthe Newport-Gwent compromise. If any part of the name is unecessary it is Dragons itself. An over-used cliche with no specific significance to the region.
The reason the Ospreys have success is down to the investment made by the millionaires on their board. If they were called Ospreys and had not made this investment they would be in the same position as the NGDs. They also had a brand new council funded stadium to move into pretty quickly. Hopefully with the redevelopment of Rodney Parade funded by Newport RFC will help the regional side. It would also be helpful if the WRU allowed the business to stand alone and attract investment in the way the others do. No businessman will invest while he cannot fully control his investment. That is a far more important issue than Davey's simplistic name debate which was done and dusted withthe Newport-Gwent compromise. If any part of the name is unecessary it is Dragons itself. An over-used cliche with no specific significance to the region.
Posted by: Eddy, Newport, South Wales on 6:28pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I am heartily sick of this nonsense and that's why I don't go any more. I think the Gwent and Dragons rubbish should be dropped immediately. I know many people who won't go any more because of this ridiculous sop to poliical correctness. As other people say on here, it's Newport RFC financing any new developments with their own asset. So, they should be allowed to rebrand to a much more sensible name of Newport (and whichever daft nickname they want which will hopefully be lost very soon). I am sick to the back teeth with wingers who want the Newport name dropped. If Newport are keeping this thing afloat, then the team should be openly called Newport. Davey is nothing more than a gutter press journalist, who generally talks complete rubbish. How on earth he makes a living fro his hopeless ramblings always puzzles me. But of course this is the Argus, which is not only the worst paper I've ever had the misfortune to read, but isn't even going to be produced in Wales soon either. This was the only reason I ever bought it. Go away Davey, and take your idiotic "Call it Draaaggoonnss" friends with you.
I am heartily sick of this nonsense and that's why I don't go any more. I think the Gwent and Dragons rubbish should be dropped immediately. I know many people who won't go any more because of this ridiculous sop to poliical correctness. As other people say on here, it's Newport RFC financing any new developments with their own asset. So, they should be allowed to rebrand to a much more sensible name of Newport (and whichever daft nickname they want which will hopefully be lost very soon). I am sick to the back teeth with wingers who want the Newport name dropped. If Newport are keeping this thing afloat, then the team should be openly called Newport. Davey is nothing more than a gutter press journalist, who generally talks complete rubbish. How on earth he makes a living fro his hopeless ramblings always puzzles me. But of course this is the Argus, which is not only the worst paper I've ever had the misfortune to read, but isn't even going to be produced in Wales soon either. This was the only reason I ever bought it. Go away Davey, and take your idiotic "Call it Draaaggoonnss" friends with you.
Posted by: monte_fisto, Newport on 7:38pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Blimey Eddy you come on the website of a paper you hate and will no longer buy to moan about a team you won't support with a name you can't stand and sing the praises of a club system that went out with the dinosaurs because it could no longer afford to survive. Happy fella aren't you? I'm happier being a 'winger' who rather the name dropped...
Blimey Eddy you come on the website of a paper you hate and will no longer buy to moan about a team you won't support with a name you can't stand and sing the praises of a club system that went out with the dinosaurs because it could no longer afford to survive. Happy fella aren't you? I'm happier being a 'winger' who rather the name dropped...
Posted by: gwentman, newport on 9:25pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The choice of the name 'Ospreys' symbolised the wish of that particular region to unite under a new name and drop their parochial differences. The choice of a new stadium away from the traditional strongholds of the Gnoll and St Helens reinforced that unity. Unless Newport surrenders its stranglehold on the Dragons brand, comes out of Rodney Parade and rebrands itself under an Ospreys-type neutral name (call it the Magpies as far as I'm concerned), the franchise will perish. You can't run the business with crowds of 3000 Newport supporters, 500 of whom are freebies to schoolkids. Change or die.
The choice of the name 'Ospreys' symbolised the wish of that particular region to unite under a new name and drop their parochial differences. The choice of a new stadium away from the traditional strongholds of the Gnoll and St Helens reinforced that unity. Unless Newport surrenders its stranglehold on the Dragons brand, comes out of Rodney Parade and rebrands itself under an Ospreys-type neutral name (call it the Magpies as far as I'm concerned), the franchise will perish. You can't run the business with crowds of 3000 Newport supporters, 500 of whom are freebies to schoolkids. Change or die.
Posted by: Eddy, Newport, South Wales on 12:01am Thu 27 Mar 08
Gruntman, what utter utter rubbish. So we release our "stranglehold" on the dragooons. Whose to pay? Are you seriously suggesting that Newport sells its ground to become homeless for the leech side to have a new ground outside Newport? Utter garbage. The reason crowds are down, season tickets are down is the ridiculous rubbush G and D monickers. Newport as a professional team attracted a lot more than this plastic rubbish. Newport were ticking over nicely before this regional plastic stuff. Ironically it was Neath and Swansea who were financially stuck. Robin Davey and some of the people on this board and clearly trolls and fantasists.
Gruntman, what utter utter rubbish. So we release our "stranglehold" on the dragooons. Whose to pay? Are you seriously suggesting that Newport sells its ground to become homeless for the leech side to have a new ground outside Newport? Utter garbage. The reason crowds are down, season tickets are down is the ridiculous rubbush G and D monickers. Newport as a professional team attracted a lot more than this plastic rubbish. Newport were ticking over nicely before this regional plastic stuff. Ironically it was Neath and Swansea who were financially stuck. Robin Davey and some of the people on this board and clearly trolls and fantasists.
Posted by: Bela, Llandenny on 12:20am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]gwentman[/bold] wrote:
The choice of the name 'Ospreys' symbolised the wish of that particular region to unite under a new name and drop their parochial differences. The choice of a new stadium away from the traditional strongholds of the Gnoll and St Helens reinforced that unity. Unless Newport surrenders its stranglehold on the Dragons brand, comes out of Rodney Parade and rebrands itself under an Ospreys-type neutral name (call it the Magpies as far as I'm concerned), the franchise will perish. You can't run the business with crowds of 3000 Newport supporters, 500 of whom are freebies to schoolkids. Change or die. [/quote] Neath and Swansea were bankrupt so merging as a new entity was the only option. The new ground was funded by the council in Swansea whereas Rodney Parade will be funded by Newport developing its own assets (the land they own.) The Ospreys success which nobody begrudges them is built on the largesse of the millionaires, especially one, who are on their board rather than something like a name change. How do you explain Newport RFC's gates a few seasons back being larger than the 'regional' sidegets now if 'Newport' is the problem? Why did NRFC sell more season tickets at Gwent addresses outside Newport than the region does now? Why did so few people buy into it when it was Gwent Dragons, forcing it into administration? Who would fund a stadium development of £40 million outside Newport? Do you think the WRU's 50% stake is encouraging investors? Where are they then (apart from the clowns who thought they were getting Rodney Parade to sell on)? Wakey wakey.
gwentman wrote:
The choice of the name 'Ospreys' symbolised the wish of that particular region to unite under a new name and drop their parochial differences. The choice of a new stadium away from the traditional strongholds of the Gnoll and St Helens reinforced that unity. Unless Newport surrenders its stranglehold on the Dragons brand, comes out of Rodney Parade and rebrands itself under an Ospreys-type neutral name (call it the Magpies as far as I'm concerned), the franchise will perish. You can't run the business with crowds of 3000 Newport supporters, 500 of whom are freebies to schoolkids. Change or die.
Neath and Swansea were bankrupt so merging as a new entity was the only option. The new ground was funded by the council in Swansea whereas Rodney Parade will be funded by Newport developing its own assets (the land they own.) The Ospreys success which nobody begrudges them is built on the largesse of the millionaires, especially one, who are on their board rather than something like a name change. How do you explain Newport RFC's gates a few seasons back being larger than the 'regional' sidegets now if 'Newport' is the problem? Why did NRFC sell more season tickets at Gwent addresses outside Newport than the region does now? Why did so few people buy into it when it was Gwent Dragons, forcing it into administration? Who would fund a stadium development of £40 million outside Newport? Do you think the WRU's 50% stake is encouraging investors? Where are they then (apart from the clowns who thought they were getting Rodney Parade to sell on)? Wakey wakey.
Posted by: monte_fisto, Newport on 2:20am Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Eddy[/bold] wrote:
Gruntman, what utter utter rubbish. So we release our "stranglehold" on the dragooons. Whose to pay? Are you seriously suggesting that Newport sells its ground to become homeless for the leech side to have a new ground outside Newport? Utter garbage. The reason crowds are down, season tickets are down is the ridiculous rubbush G and D monickers. Newport as a professional team attracted a lot more than this plastic rubbish. Newport were ticking over nicely before this regional plastic stuff. Ironically it was Neath and Swansea who were financially stuck. Robin Davey and some of the people on this board and clearly trolls and fantasists.[/quote] Newport were ticking over nicely? We had a few brief seasons of pseudo success as a sugar-daddies plaything who packed the place with foreign 'stars' looking to get on the gravy train of Welsh international caps. Wish I could remember these so-called glory years, and I should do, I was there!
Eddy wrote:
Gruntman, what utter utter rubbish. So we release our "stranglehold" on the dragooons. Whose to pay? Are you seriously suggesting that Newport sells its ground to become homeless for the leech side to have a new ground outside Newport? Utter garbage. The reason crowds are down, season tickets are down is the ridiculous rubbush G and D monickers. Newport as a professional team attracted a lot more than this plastic rubbish. Newport were ticking over nicely before this regional plastic stuff. Ironically it was Neath and Swansea who were financially stuck. Robin Davey and some of the people on this board and clearly trolls and fantasists.
Newport were ticking over nicely? We had a few brief seasons of pseudo success as a sugar-daddies plaything who packed the place with foreign 'stars' looking to get on the gravy train of Welsh international caps. Wish I could remember these so-called glory years, and I should do, I was there!
Posted by: Nosser, Newport on 10:35am Thu 27 Mar 08
So this lively exchange of views clearly demonstrates that some people will support professional rugby in this area and some people won't. Wow! Didn't we already know that and haven't we heard and read all of the views expressed here before. Pointless stirring by Davey that simply allows the usual suspects to raise their personal prejudices. If you want to watch pro rugby in this area, come down to Rodney Parade, bring your mates, have a drink, relax and have fun. Introduce your children to it, as you were probably introduced by your parents at their chosen club. If you don't want to come then don't. Do something else that you enjoy and that you can retain a bit of perspective over. Nothing succeeds like success, and proper investment into a competitive team will make facile arguments over names redundant as those that sprout them will be more irrelevant than you already are.
So this lively exchange of views clearly demonstrates that some people will support professional rugby in this area and some people won't. Wow! Didn't we already know that and haven't we heard and read all of the views expressed here before. Pointless stirring by Davey that simply allows the usual suspects to raise their personal prejudices. If you want to watch pro rugby in this area, come down to Rodney Parade, bring your mates, have a drink, relax and have fun. Introduce your children to it, as you were probably introduced by your parents at their chosen club. If you don't want to come then don't. Do something else that you enjoy and that you can retain a bit of perspective over. Nothing succeeds like success, and proper investment into a competitive team will make facile arguments over names redundant as those that sprout them will be more irrelevant than you already are.
Posted by: silurian, gwent region on 11:21am Thu 27 Mar 08
i see there is alot of bitter and twisted people on this topic page its sad to see they cannot see common sense and cannot comprise if we keep on with an attitude like this the dragons region is going to be a door mat to more successful regions or english clubs if we want this region to succeed we must comprise
i see there is alot of bitter and twisted people on this topic page its sad to see they cannot see common sense and cannot comprise if we keep on with an attitude like this the dragons region is going to be a door mat to more successful regions or english clubs if we want this region to succeed we must comprise
Posted by: stevey, B.G. on 5:02pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]exilegareth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]stevey[/bold] wrote: And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.[/quote] Stevey, You can ask all you like, but in the brave new world instituted by David Moffett money talks and everything else is immaterial. Since the Chuckle Bros exited stage left, pursued by bears, no-one from north of Newport has either desired or tried to invest any money in the Dragons. In Moffett's brave new world, if you want to play you got to pay. Ebbw Vale and their peers haven't, and that's why we're where we are. Even Robin Davey undertsands that money talks - he's trying to get the circulation of the Argus up by starting another pointless argument.[/quote] The Russell bros. and co. walked because Brownose renegged on his word. If someone does that you just can't trust them, and I don't blame them, esp. when it comes to money. Talking of which, Newport were losing money hand over fist when Brownose was propping them up, now he's gone with his marketing men so have all the fair-weather supporters.
exilegareth wrote:
stevey wrote: And this is all the rest of Gwent were asking for from the outset, but 5 years later is 5 years too late, any connection fans from the valley's felt is now just a distant memory. Things have not worked out under the current system, poor crowds, players of calibre leaving, a new stadium(?) with 4,000 fans in. So now Dobbin reflects at his own shortcomings as a journo, and confesses he was wrong, this is the same man that stirred up hatred with his Newport one-eyedness and helped to disenfranchise all north of the M4.
Stevey, You can ask all you like, but in the brave new world instituted by David Moffett money talks and everything else is immaterial. Since the Chuckle Bros exited stage left, pursued by bears, no-one from north of Newport has either desired or tried to invest any money in the Dragons. In Moffett's brave new world, if you want to play you got to pay. Ebbw Vale and their peers haven't, and that's why we're where we are. Even Robin Davey undertsands that money talks - he's trying to get the circulation of the Argus up by starting another pointless argument.
The Russell bros. and co. walked because Brownose renegged on his word. If someone does that you just can't trust them, and I don't blame them, esp. when it comes to money. Talking of which, Newport were losing money hand over fist when Brownose was propping them up, now he's gone with his marketing men so have all the fair-weather supporters.
Posted by: Bela, Llandenny on 5:28pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]silurian[/bold] wrote:
i see there is alot of bitter and twisted people on this topic page its sad to see they cannot see common sense and cannot comprise if we keep on with an attitude like this the dragons region is going to
