I am afraid that most public art done at the moment is too abstract for many peoples tastes and I have to say that in my opinion the old mosaic is very good and deserves not to be discarded.

It may well be good, but it's in a narrow dimly-lit urine-soaked 1960s tunnel so it can't be seen properly.

It is attached to a crumbling car park in such a way that it cannot realistically be saved.

Modus have indicated that they will work with the artist's son to create a new one that will be more accessible.

What exactly is the problem here?

The problem is that whenever something positive happens in Newport it gets bogged down by people's negativity and small minded whingeing. The mural will be replaced by something we can all have a say about. Surely the thing people should be excited about is that the biggest development in Newport city centre for a generations is now close to starting.

I really don't understand why the council hasn't approached the local art colleges. There would be dozens of students willing to help catalogue and remove this mosaic for preservation. And they'll do it for next to nothing. Everyone wins....

Jim, you are spot-on. All the hurdles have now been cleared - the CPO, the planning permission, the signing up of 50% of the tenants. Perhaps it would be nice to know who a few of them are, but we can't have everything!

leave it alone it's part of Newport's hsitory which people should be able to see.
Being from Newport it shows the history Of where I come from

Of course we want the disgusting sixties brutalist walkthrought and car park knocked down. However, the mural is superb. I notice the initial part of the Mural just outside the 'tunnel' has been removed formt he wall?? Why can't all of it be moved? Owain, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the development, we all realsie that town badly needs re-development, but what goes up has to be as good as possible. Remember, the developers who built the disgusting stuff we see today offered the same glimmering hopes of 'modern development' when they put up the disgusting architecture we want to knock down today. From what i have seen some of the 'improvements' are as bad as whats going. for instance the car park to replace kingsway looks idebtical except 'modern' red railings, not exactly cutting edge architectural thinking, and the same oges for the botch job extension of the kingsway centre itsels, too much of this development looks like cutting corners....ALSO has anyone else noticed the now fast decaying LYSAGHTS building, kids are nw stripping it, come on argus get on the councils back.

For goodness sake Kate, we can't leave it alone otherwise we will have no new city centre development! It's all been decided now anyway thankfully...

How can we make a multi-storey car park look any different from a multi-storey car park? It is a functional building. It needs floors for cars to park on. From the renders I've seen it will certainly look nicer than what was there before with "high-tech" aluminium mesh panels and the like.

I do agree with your Lysaghts comment up to a point. The council denied planning permission to demolish it, and short of a CPO there is little else they can do. We can't have them CPOing every building in the city otherwise people will be moaning that there is too much government interference in commercial matters and they may not want to risk their investment being compulsorily purchased!

Owain, you must be some sort of council 'stooge' ??

There are a million ways to make a car park look 'different' , it's the same as any other building, of course it has a functional inside but could have any number of facades to give newport something to be proud of. just take a look at any numbe rof architectural styles or iconice buildings nationwide.

I am sure we will be back here in ten years time seeing you crying for these same buildings you want erected to be knocked down again for the latest new thing...ever heard of the emperors new clothes.

Yes we want re-development, but whilst we have the chance lets make it the best we can not just cheap replacements with no imagination.

yes argue for change Owain but don't try and shout down anyone who questions 'your' change as out of touch.

You don't have to be a council stooge to welcome the development or just take a different view to the baying anti-everything crowds that swamp this website. Take a look at the www.friarswalk.com website where you'll get a good indication of the quality of the design and architecture of this scheme. And I've yet to see anyone come up with an 'interesting' car park.

Please keep our mural

Thank you

Lets scrap the development in the centre of Newport, leave it like the crime-ridden bombsite it is....

People on here are appalling! Everyone seems to hate progress, few people have anything positive to say about any changes. The council will have to pay for the conservation of that mural, and it'll cost a few million quid to do it, would everyone like to pay more council tax to conserve it?????? I for one would rather a new mural, than pay a lot of money to conserve the old one!!

Don't believe me it'll cost a fair bit to conserve? Scaffolding to work on, people hours, risk assessments, Structural support, Engineers to inspect the structures, cost of conservation, replacing tiles, cleaning them, and then the cost of reapplying them to wherever it ends up (which should be the museum...)

Owain,you ask;
How can we make a multi-storey car park look any different from a multi-storey car park?

If you are ever near Cirencester,go to Tesco on the Swindon road.
It's modelled on a Roman Villa and looks incredible (for a shop).
The same could apply to a Car Park if people demanded a little style in new buildings.

The problem with car parks is there are certain health & safety issues that need to be taken into account. I can't see how it could have an entirely false façade because that would cause all the fumes to build up inside. The shape and bulk of the building itself is largely governed by the fact that it needs to hold as many cars in as small a space as possible and also allow for their turning circles.

this was moved from my last post . why does the argus do more than one post about the same topic .
Posted by: i love newport on 12:51pm today
Owain. You are right on all points except the destruction of it. If it was moved to a nicer part of town people could enjoy it more instead of a cold tunnel. When removing such things they label each part take pictures of each section then remove a little at a time. How the **** do you think they can rebuild other things that are millions of years old this part of Newport should be put on the national news destroying such a gorgeous Mosaic maybe others might no about their plans. Newport as already been ripped apart destroying our memories. Thing is you don’t know or miss something until its gone. Never mind the cost I am sure they can find it somewhere else. I can honestly say I have never had a pee in that tunnel. I no I would properly get caught. The singer don’t’ know where he is now was frank lodge. And were Harry dibble. Also the tall black guy always had slippers on. Looking for chips in the bin. I am not that fussed about the clock when it could be bothered to work. That was a waste of money but save our mosaic. If you guys rubbish the idea then you’re not really Newport born a bred ,or you just don’t care shame on you.
Owain. You are right on all points except the destruction of it. If it was moved to a nicer part of town people could enjoy it more instead of a cold tunnel.
When removing such things they label each part take pictures of each section then remove a little at a time. How the **** do you think they can rebuild other things that are millions of years old this part of Newport should be put on the national news destroying such a gorgeous
Mosaic maybe others might no about their plans. Newport as already been ripped apart destroying our memories. Thing is you don’t know or miss something until its gone. Never mind the cost I am sure they can find it somewhere else. I can honestly say I have never had a pee in that tunnel. I no I would properly get caught. The singer don’t’ know where he is now was frank lodge. And were Harry dibble. Also the tall black guy always had slippers on. Looking for chips in the bin.
I am not that fussed about the clock when it could be bothered to work. That was a waste of money but save our mosaic. If you guys rubbish the idea then you’re not really Newport born a bred ,or you just don’t care shame on you.

I repeat: It is a nice mosaic but really not worth:

a) All the money that would need to be spent moving it
b) The delay that would be cause to the project in so doing.

This thing was only erected in 1978 - it's not ancient Roman or Greek or anything. Let's get a sense of perspective here!

Modus have included a schedule of public art in their planning application (which has just been approved), so the city will end up with MORE public art, not less...

i think that, once again, the council is just going to demolish a piece of the city's history. it's all well and good proposing a newer art piece, but the current one has become a piece of history itself! and though it may not be 'ancient Roman or Greek' but people travel to newport to see it. it also presents a much clearer picture as to what the chartists were campaigning for, instead of the statues outside the old west gate hotel (which itself has now become a starbucks, hmv, phones 4 u, nightclub and a clothes shop - think this in itself shows the councils complete disregard for the city's history!)

People travel to Newport to see it? They'll be sorely disappointed when they get there then...

Why are you attacking the council for allowing more shops in the city centre? Jeez, people really will have a moan about anything...

It's a pity to see it go. Especially the added oh s**t caption on one of the men that had been shot

Owain,whilst you are clearly in favour of the re-development of the "city"centre,have you ever heard the addage..you can´t put purfume on a dog s***?Newport will always be a second rate "city"as long as it´s council ploughs money into needless development,it should worry more about the Clarence place eyesore before going headlong into this latest facelift!Oh,and Frankie was class!

Owain Vaughan,,,,
do you work for the council ?
it would not supprise me .

Along with many of the other whingers of Newport… I’m not against re-development.... it's long been over due and we’ve lost out to the likes of Cardiff and Cwmbran for too long.... what I whinge about is the just the lack of joined up thinking... and the existing '60's crap shopping centre being replaced with a 21st century crap building….
Newport's planners seem to have this blue print in their mind of what a city should be like...i.e. with a university campus in its centre like every other city and a population that only travels in by bus….. they should take the opportunity to have something that’s unique in line with its long historical past.

Well, well what a suprise Newport Council rubber stamped the major changes to the city ccentre redevelopment in record time. Strange as they normally take many months.

So much for the farce of the consultation they held. Once they awarded themselves planning permision they bin the orginal plans and come up with another set. These revised plans could not have been drawn up in a few days they must have existed for many moths and probably right from the start of the scheme. So now we are starting to see the real scheme and not the one that went out for consultation.

AS these are major changes to the orginal plan why has it not gone back out for consultation. Why the underhand rushing through and rubber stamping the plans.

If you or I had made the slightest change to our approved plans the council would have spent many months reviewing them and suggesting changes

tidy yet wrote:
Owain, you must be some sort of council 'stooge' ?? There are a million ways to make a car park look 'different' , it's the same as any other building, of course it has a functional inside but could have any number of facades to give newport something to be proud of. just take a look at any numbe rof architectural styles or iconice buildings nationwide. I am sure we will be back here in ten years time seeing you crying for these same buildings you want erected to be knocked down again for the latest new thing...ever heard of the emperors new clothes. Yes we want re-development, but whilst we have the chance lets make it the best we can not just cheap replacements with no imagination. yes argue for change Owain but don't try and shout down anyone who questions 'your' change as out of touch.

Of course as you say they are plenty of ways to make a Multi Story Car Park look attractive.

We are unfortantily dealing with Newport Council who specialise in cheap & tacky buildings and bad planning and having build it they don't bother to maintain them. There are plenty of fine building in Newport but Newport has been ruined beyond recovery by the eyesore that have been errected all over the town. Look at the nast tacky arts centre. We could have had a first class one in the old arts collage instead we have the old arts collage added to the list of deralict building in the town.

We have the montrosity multistory car park by the railway station and the falling down one by the bus station. We have the filthy bus station that has never seen a clean or a like of paint since it was built.

Unfortunatly it is not going to change. We will just get more of the same. Newport is like a ghost town. The shoppers have gone else where and at night its full of yobs & drunks.

Then we have the tower block they are building by the station. The rest of the UK is tearing them down but Newport Council has decided that a tower block is just what Newport needs.

....and as with many of the council sanctioned 'improvements' there has been scant consultation and consideration given to us the end users and utimately funders these developments... it's all to do with the council's 'grand plan' (if one exists) and the profitability for these 'investment' companies...who are out to make profit...and care little about us.

Dave on his soapbox wrote:
....and as with many of the council sanctioned 'improvements' there has been scant consultation and consideration given to us the end users and utimately funders these developments... it's all to do with the council's 'grand plan' (if one exists) and the profitability for these 'investment' companies...who are out to make profit...and care little about us.

Newport Council are not the slightest interest in our views or anyone else’s. They will go ahead and inflect on us what they want to build. These politicians are certainly not accountable to the electorate. They totally ignore them.
If you look through the glossy artistic bits of fiction you can see how tacky and bad these plans are.
Key elements of the plans have now been junked. Did the council seek our view before it changed the plans? **** no.
The way Newport Council is run stinks. The way they just ignore the electorate stinks. It's run as a private club for the benefit of the councillors.
The way Newport Council have ruined some of the finest building in Newport is a total and complete disgrace
I like the way a Council Spokesman said it was not possible to save the Mural. Strange how it was possible when the plans were approved. In any case where were our elected politicians they should be informing us what is going on not some anonymous council spokesman.
I think it’s time for the people of Newport to rise up again and tell this councillors that they are supposed to be serving the people of Newport, not Newport Unlimited who seem to be inflicting most of these things on us and telling us what they are going to do. How gave this unelected company the right to go around deciding what they will inflict on Newport. Who gave Modus the same right?
Our Councillors are supposed to be looking after our interests and are supposed to be accountable to us. They are not doing their job. We need to have answers from them. Somehow I don’t think we will. There will be total silence from them.
It’s time our councillors told us what the **** is going on because they certainly have not told us the truth to date.

Erm.. last time I looked I don't think Cardiff are stopping building new tower blocks, or Swansea (just building the largest one in Wales at the marina) or Bristol or London, Manchester or any other major city so you're quite wrong there. There is a masterplan, it's been advertised for years and publicised in the Argus. You were all probably too busy complaining to get involved in the consultations. The NCP car park has another side to it, and I think the old post office building is an attractive office development and that area has been transformed into an attractive public space. Yes, there are pubs and drunks on the weekend, but have you been out in Cardiff, Bristol or Swansea, that's part of life and always has been. The Riverfront building is a matter of taste and as many people like it as dislike it. The art college has never been a council building meaning there is little they could do and if I remember the Modus scheme planning application went in sometime in December, some four months ago, hardly rushed through. As usual your arguments are full of one eyed, narrow minded prejudice against the council, if everything is so bad in Newport, please by all means move away, maybe to identikit clone town Cwmbran, pay a couple of hundred pound more council tax a year, but hey, at least you've got free parking. Newport's got too many people like you lot running the place down. This is an exciting time, and the plans are superb. www.friarswalk.com take a look.

Owain Vaughan wrote:
For goodness sake Kate, we can\'t leave it alone otherwise we will have no new city centre development! It\'s all been decided now anyway thankfully...

Why don't you be honest and declare you interest.

Most posters here want redevelopment but they don’t want the crap cheap tacky crap that we are being offered. The standard of finish and the design of the buildings is third rate. The multi story car park that is being built is just an eyesore. The proposed road layout a mess.

So what we are getting is a continuation of the same bad planning and buildings we have had before and no doubt Newport Council will neglect them as well to quickly get them down to the normal run down appearance they like so much.

I remember the Old Post Office site the same hype from Newport Council it was going to be Shops & Leisure facilities. It ended up as one Cafe and another eyesore multi-storey car park

Owain Vaughan wrote:
The problem with car parks is there are certain health & safety issues that need to be taken into account. I can't see how it could have an entirely false façade because that would cause all the fumes to build up inside. The shape and bulk of the building itself is largely governed by the fact that it needs to hold as many cars in as small a space as possible and also allow for their turning circles.

You really are daft. You can come up with an attractive multi-storey car park. There are plenty of fine examples. Unfortunately there are even more examples of how not to do it. A very good example of how not to do it will be the one that is going to be built in Newport.

So everyone will choke on the fumes. That comment is so daft it does not even deserve a reply.

So according to you anyone that uses an underground car park will not get out alive. Words fail me as to how someone can be so stupid.

jim wrote:
Erm.. last time I looked I don't think Cardiff are stopping building new tower blocks, or Swansea (just building the largest one in Wales at the marina) or Bristol or London, Manchester or any other major city so you're quite wrong there. There is a masterplan, it's been advertised for years and publicised in the Argus. You were all probably too busy complaining to get involved in the consultations. The NCP car park has another side to it, and I think the old post office building is an attractive office development and that area has been transformed into an attractive public space. Yes, there are pubs and drunks on the weekend, but have you been out in Cardiff, Bristol or Swansea, that's part of life and always has been. The Riverfront building is a matter of taste and as many people like it as dislike it. The art college has never been a council building meaning there is little they could do and if I remember the Modus scheme planning application went in sometime in December, some four months ago, hardly rushed through. As usual your arguments are full of one eyed, narrow minded prejudice against the council, if everything is so bad in Newport, please by all means move away, maybe to identikit clone town Cwmbran, pay a couple of hundred pound more council tax a year, but hey, at least you've got free parking. Newport's got too many people like you lot running the place down. This is an exciting time, and the plans are superb. www.friarswalk.com take a look.

Well said.

If you don't like what's happening to Newport, you are not chained to the place. Move.

I'm looking forward to the redevelopment. The plans are ambitious, far reaching and look good - when taken as a whole.

It's like taking a look at a liver, going "Ych y fi, that looks disgusting" without realising that it's just a part of what makes up a whole living person.

The total redevelopment is going to take years - decades even. I beleive Newport Unlimited's timescale says it should be done by 2020. I can't wait - it's going to make the whole city look stunning.

James Jackson, please try and lower your blood pressure, it can't be good for you. Obviously car parks can be build underground but with expensive extraction systems. What would you rather - an "open" car park, or a closed one with a "nice façade" that costs twice as much to park in because of the expensive extraction system running all the time. Whingers like you would have a field day then. Jim and Steve are right, and you are just "everything sucks", "everyone bar me is stupid". Give it a rest.

Owain Vaughan wrote:
People travel to Newport to see it? They'll be sorely disappointed when they get there then... Why are you attacking the council for allowing more shops in the city centre? Jeez, people really will have a moan about anything...

yes, people will moan at anything. but this isn't moaning, it's standing up to defend a part of the cities history! people do travel to Newport to see it - especially those from outside the UK.
the 21st sentury perspective on this: who cares 'it's just history'. those men died for a cause, and once again people are just being ignorant of history.
if we're gonna tear down history for shops here's a few more then that the council should consider: the castle (already half demolished by their predecessors), the cenotaph perhaps?, they've already buried the motte and bailey castle, perhaps the Roman attractions out Caerleon?

I think that this is a stupid idea and that the mural should stay where it is i have grown up with it all my life and so have many other famileys,every body in mystreet are making ourown memories of the mural by making that very same one out of mosaic for us to remember it and all the others just dont care about itany more well i do and i would hate to see it go.